Resources

• Luck is no Accident: Making the Most of Happenstance in Your Life and Career, book by John D. Krumboltz and Al S. Levin

Transcript

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Hello everyone and welcome to ‘What’s Up, Doc?’, an initiative developed by the University of Michigan Office of Postdoctoral Affairs. ‘What’s Up, Doc?’ is a professional development interview series created to support the career exploration effort and professional development needs of current U-M postdocs. You will hear from former U-M postdocs discuss their own postdoc experience and share advice on their experience transitioning into their career of choice. We hope you will get the answers you want and need to make an informed decision about your own career. I am Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Maurinne Bonnet

And I am Maurinne Bonnet.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Today our guest is Doctor Rita Avelar, who completed her postdoc at the University of Michigan in 2025. Rita is now the lead scientist of research and translational discovery at CircNova in Ann Arbor. Welcome Rita and thank you for joining us.

Rita Avelar

Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Maurinne Bonnet

Hi Rita, welcome. Before we dive into what you actually do in your new job, could you please introduce yourself and, with a bit of your background, how did you end up doing your postdoc at the U of M?

Rita Avelar

Yeah. So I started my postdoc right after I graduated from my PhD, also at the University of Michigan. I did my PhD with Doctor DiFeo in the pathology department and it felt like the right fit for me to stay a little longer to continue the project that I had during my PhD to see it published and also to expand my expertise from this lab and actually leverage their collaborations at the time, which actually led me to the job that I have today.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

So you work for CircNova. Can you tell us a little bit about that company and what they do?

Rita Avelar

Yeah. So CircNova is actually a biotech that is located in Ann Arbor here in Michigan. And what we do, we use our AI driven drug discovery to accelerate the development of RNA therapeutics. So what that really means is that we are using our proprietary AI Nova engine technology in order to help us predict the RNA structure, binding affinities and biological function to help us engineer new medicines and therapeutic approaches and hope to treat human disease.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Very cool. So like I said earlier, you’re the lead scientist. So can you tell us a little bit about what this role entails, what it’s like, what it looks like day-to-day?

Rita Avelar

Yeah. So as the lead scientist, what I really do is to establish and direct all CircNova’s experimental biology programs and platforms. So what I really do, and what I’m responsible to do, is to bridge the molecular biology in human disease with the drug discovery to accelerate CircNova’s pipeline from early stage innovation to hopefully translational discovery. So my day-to-day really is to help design, execute, and oversee the wet lab research. So I seek to validate all the RNA therapeutics that are generated through our AI and then advance the discovery platforms and introduce the therapeutic programs that we have in collaboration with other biotechs as well as academic institutions.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

So it seems that you collaborate with a lot of people. So how many people work at CircNova?

Rita Avelar

Yeah. So we actually are a smaller biotech right now. We’ve been around for about two years and right now we are a total of 11 employees.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Okay, cool. So you have a startup label, I would say.

Rita Avelar

Correct yeah. I think we’re just finally trying to transition from startup to actually biotech.

Maurinne Bonnet

You know what it would take to actually transition from startup to biotech? Is this just the number of people working there, is it in terms of funding? What does it take?

Rita Avelar

Yeah, so I’m learning a lot about this being in the startup and the biotech world you get to wear all these different hats and you’re no longer just elite scientists, you’re also, you know, the manager and the project manager, and you know, like the investor interface representative, right. So you have all of these different functionalities that you never really got to explore before during your PhD. So from my understanding, it really is devoted on exposure and funding basically. So we have seed rounds and depending on where we are at the moment and how much we’re able to fundraise and how far our platform or our product, right, is being put through is what defines us as a biotech instead of a startup.

Maurinne Bonnet

So if we come back to like when you were a postdoc and you approached your like transition into this career, how did you actually navigate your transition from your postdoc to your new role? And especially, I would be interested in hearing how did you approach that conversation with your PI?

Rita Avelar

Yeah, that’s a really interesting question because I believe it’s very different from multiple people and in different labs. So when I joined the DiFeo lab for a postdoc, we both knew and agreed that, you know, I needed to transition into a new role soon enough, just because I had been with Annalisa for a quite a while as a research assistant and then as a PhD student, and we both knew that staying within her umbrella was going to possibly jeopardize my future career just because I needed to explore other avenues and make sure that I can actually flourish as a scientist in different environments. So we both had that perception from early on. The reason why I really stayed as a postdoc is because she was an expert, and the lead expert in micro RNAs, which was something I had never explored during my PhD. And it made sense for me to leverage that expertise from her. And so until I actually got that foundation and taking a lead role in the lab in the micro RNA field, it didn’t feel right to move on from my postdoctoral career. And so that conversation started from the very beginning for us since I started my postdoc with her, so that was an easy, you know, transition for me to tell her what my goal really was for those that don’t have that relationship with their PIs from the beginning, right? I think it’s definitely a conversation that should happen during interviews, because then they know the expectation that you have from the beginning and there’s no surprises. I think what really helped me was to connect with multiple different people and Dr. DiFeo was always very helpful in the reach out to the groups that she had as part of their collaborative environment. And also going to conferences really helped me explore what I wanted to do next. So that conversation was pretty standard for me. And as the postdoc lead scientist that I had been the senior scientist in that lab for a while now, I was able to communicate to, to Dr. DiFeo that I wanted to collaborate more with industry partnerships so that I could have that transition eventually and move from academia into more of an industry setting. She established those communications and I was going to be the lead scientist in the DiFeo lab for CircNova and eventually a position was open and became available and I was able to actually transitioned from my postdoc job into the CircNova job.

Maurinne Bonnet

I think it’s a, it’s a very good point, like having this conversation as early as possible with the PIs so, like you said, both know the expectations and your PI can also try to be supportive, either by connecting you with people or either you know, just give you the space and the time you need to explore career options, network with people, and stuff like that, yeah.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

I would actually add too that it’s important to have that conversation early on, like you said, because you might absolutely love working for your PI in their lab but you know, you know you’re going to gain, like, so many much more skills and expertise and all these things, but essentially talking with your PI early also allows you to realize whether or not your PI is the great mentor support you’re going to need for that transition. And if they’re not, that’s fine, but at least you know it early on so that you can, like you said, go and find other people to talk to. Like, you know, have informational interview, which is kind of like what this podcast is about, but also like, start networking to find those people that have those connections to really help you long term, when you’re ready to transition into your next career.

Rita Avelar

I couldn’t agree more and it was really interesting for me specifically because I transitioned from a graduate student role to a postdoctoral role in the same lab and actually watching my PI adjust to my new needs and my new role was actually really (in) telling on how important that mentorship and support is to adjust with you and your role. The biggest reason why I think I recommend to talk to your PI right away is so that they know what you were looking for because some opportunities come from random conversations that they’re having at like not only conference, but even sometimes just, you know, during class or doing, doing any other type of interactive scientific, you know, communication. And they’re like “Oh, I know someone that is actually interested in following that career, I should put you in touch with that person”. And if you never mentioned it before, you are not going to be in the back of their mind when these opportunities come about.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Yeah.

Rita Avelar

I tried so hard to find a job that like fit exactly my skill set and that’s exactly my dream job and what I wanted to do, and I talked to the right people, I have the right, you know, networking and it just never happened. And you know, this random collaboration that happened through a different graduate student doing a poster presentation, you know, and when they reached out to Dr. DiFeo, she was like “Oh, I know someone who’s interested in doing that”. And she would have never known, she would have never thought about me or, you know, she didn’t even, she could have not even taken that opportunity with that collaboration because she didn’t think of someone that could take over if she had too much going on in her lab. And so I think that really speaks for, like you said, there’s a balance and there’s definitely a supportive environment and communication that has to happen between you and your postdoctoral mentor in order for them to even know how to help you.

Maurinne Bonnet

It’s, it’s actually very true and as we are conducting more interviews for the podcast, something we’ve learned about people transitioning is sometimes they’re transitioning into their career with intention; that’s the career they wanted, the job they wanted, but most of the time is some kind of like you were at the right place at the right time, it’s kind of serendipity or luck. And even, even if you don’t know what you want to do, we still encourage you to talk to your PI because they can ask you some questions and, and by answering those questions that help you, you know, figure out your career or like they can direct you to the OPA or the OGPS office.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

You mentioned that you had that conversation saying you wanted to transition from academia to industry. So my question is that now that you’re working in a startup, was it your initial plan? Like did you know what it was going to be like or was it again, like happenstance, complete coincidence that you ended up there? And if it is, what were the things you leveraged from your training to get you the job essentially?

Rita Avelar

That’s a great question, actually never really brainstormed about that particular thought, so I would say that first of all, biotech or the startup world is definitely something that you learn in the theory, but practically completely different I would say. I knew to expect, you know, like you’re going to have to wear different hats and the company starts kind of like small and you have to be there supportive of each other and different people will have different expertises that they will leverage in different scenarios and situations. But it’s so much more than that, right? Like startups are really just new and they don’t know what to do, and maybe they, they can be the 3rd or the 4th try of a CEO because they’re also learning how to adventure through their network, right? Like our CEO is an exceptional fundraiser, but also she came from the automotive industry, so how is she in the biomedical field, right? Like you just get these completely different exposures that you never really thought about and I’ll tell you like you really have to have a very talented team to come together and to work together in order to be able to succeed, and we are really the example of that. And I don’t say that just because I work there, but it’s just, like, amazing how these completely different talents that come from different backgrounds can come together and just be amazing at what they do. And you know, like my background is pure biology, and actually protein biology and oncology, and now I’m doing RNA biology and it’s completely different, you know, disease setting and neurophysiology and need to leverage AI which I had never had exposure to, right? So you can’t really train for this. You kind of just go with the flow and you just have to be really open minded and willing to explore and to just risk. And that’s what I really like about the startup world is that every day is different. You don’t really have a set expectation and it’s going to go that way every time. Obviously, with that comes, you know, risk and that risk for us postdocs is something that it’s definitely outside of our comfort zone. When you know when we leave Michigan and we have OPA has been incredible for me specifically, OGPS, and as a graduate student, I leveraged so much of the Rackham opportunities as well. So it’s a little different and I’m a little bit more used to that, having that support and in the biotech world, you’re kind of just like are out for yourself and for me as an international postdoc, that risk sometimes is a little bit scary just because you never know what’s going to happen. Funding is very volatile, and it can happen that you’re not going to be able to continue in that position for a lot longer. And that’s a little scary because it’s less stable and, you know, having to work my visa situation with my working permit is definitely something that I need to keep in mind and that was a lot more stable at the University of Michigan. But I work with incredible people, and they’re very willing to, to see me through in this role and that’s what I have for me that a lot of people unfortunately don’t have. And I am honestly rediscovering my whole career and it is nothing what I expected. As a PhD student I actually did an internship at Merck, so I knew I wanted industry then and that’s really when I had my first taste of what it felt like to be outside of academia. And I that’s what I wanted to do, that’s what I thought I wanted to do. I wanted to go into industry, I wanted to go to big pharma to have a stable job, you know, a nine to five that would still give me security but wanted to explore and be independent in my research career. And when I interviewed for the biotech and really asked each person what they would do in their day-to-day and how they would leverage their scientific ideas, I fell in love with it and I just, I honestly do not regret it at all.

Maurinne Bonnet

So you said like you, you did an internship at Merck. And so, what are the main differences you see between, you know, kind of a big pharma like Merck or a big company and CircNova and what made you choose a small company versus going back to Merck or, or another big pharma?

Rita Avelar

Yeah, that’s a really great question. I asked myself that question almost every day just because, like, something big, as big as Merck, right? Like I said, you have a lot of financial stability or at least more than the biotech world. And I would say the programs are a lot better established so you kind of get hired for a discovery program that you know, at least initially, what the main overall goal of the company is right and these companies are very well established and they have been doing this type of work for a really long time. What I love about the big pharma is the type of people that you learn from, right? Like you have very experienced people that have done this for a really long time. They are very well knowledged in what drug discovery is, what the oncology opportunity really looks like, right? And you have scientists from all over the world and from all kinds of backgrounds you have, you work with chemists and with the pharmacology group and the in vivo group, so you really are this giant group of people that you really learn from. In the biotech, right, you start small and what you don’t know, instead of reaching out to an expert that is in your group, you have to just go and figure it out yourself. So that was scary in the beginning, you know, like, because I have an oncology background in proteins. Why would I know RNA in neurophysiology, right? It, it, it just like you become an expert in such a niche field that you’re comfortable with, then you kind of forget that you have a PhD and you can adventure yourself through other expert fields. So that is something that I thought I wouldn’t thrive in, and I was definitely wrong, because I think that actually has challenged me. Me and Maurinne talk so much about this. It’s like, do you really know what you want to do? Are you really going to be good at it? Are you going to be able to thrive in that environment? Is it scary to go a little bit out of your comfort zone because you’ve been doing this type of research for so long? And in my case, I rediscovered myself and I kind of felt like I was reaching a plateau in my career where I was really good at what I do, and I have excellent hands to execute the experiments that I needed, but I actually missed using my brain a lot more, you know, like I needed to push myself outside of my comfort zone to rediscover myself as a scientist.

Maurinne Bonnet

You know, it’s very funny what you just said, because I also do some consulting for a company that actually work in the exact field I’m supposed to be an expert in, according to my PhD and my postdoc experience, and every single day I work with them, I realized how little I know in this field I’m supposed to be the expert, especially from academia to industry or biotech, startups like you have to learn so much more and you’re like, well, actually, I know nothing. (laughs) Or actually I realized what I don’t know and I’m working to know those things, but very interesting to get your insights in the differences big pharma and startup.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

And I will even add that I loved how you said I reminded myself I have a PhD because it is something that I say often in advising, like one-on-one advising meetings, especially people who, who want to remain in a technical field where it’s like, yes, you have the techniques, you have the technical background, but even if it’s not your field of expertise, you have a PhD. By default, having a PhD, and if you have that postdoc experience even more, it’s essentially your golden ticket to say I can learn, I can do the research, I can look for the papers, I can find a way to understand what people mean, even if it’s not the thing that I’m an expert in. That’s literally what this is about, like solving problems and troubleshooting and finding the information to move along.

Rita Avelar

You’ve done it before, and you can do it again.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Absolutely!

Maurinne Bonnet

Yeah, and that’s something I think especially like small biotech and startup they like about people is like they’re I think looking for not necessarily just the skill sets, but also like a personality. Like you said, they want somebody who would like fit within the team of experts to actually help the company grow. Where in the big pharma, when you look at job offers and posting on LinkedIn, they want somebody who is very expert in one specific field, like somebody with a PhD plus 5-7 years of experience. When you look at what startups are looking for if they post something, because usually it’s the network, and when you see a posting out there, usually it’s like they’re looking for a personality, somebody who is going to be willing to roll their, their sleeves and, like, get the job done and not, let’s say, just somebody with a PhD and X years of experience.

Rita Avelar

I agree and I have to say, being in the job market for as long as I was before I secured this job, it’s very overwhelming and it’s extremely discouraging because sometimes you find the job that you’re like “This person is describing my PhD career” and you apply and you’re just a piece of paper, right? And I don’t even know if I would have gotten, I believe my skill set would bring me there, but I really don’t know if I would have secured the CircNova job unless I was able to prove myself, like you said, as a whole package, right? Not only as a scientist, because whoever has a PhD you can probably do what I do. But I’m more than that, right? Like I am more than what my paper looks like. I, I can bring you not only expertise, but like the group dynamic, the team dynamic. I have mentored so many people: how am I able to convey, you know, those extra soft skills if you don’t talk to me, if you don’t give me the opportunity to show you that I’m much more than just my PhD. And sometimes that gets really discouraging and you lose yourself a little bit in this sea of job opportunities that you feel like you’re never good enough to land. And that happened to me obviously, and I’m sure it will happen to most of the postdocs that will listen to this podcast. Like, don’t give up: the job out there that is meant to be yours will find you some way, somehow. And I feel like the key is to never give up, and whenever you think that there’s a small chance or there’s little opportunity in this conference, or talking to this, to this person or going to even like a talk at U of M, right? Just go and talk to the speaker. Maybe they’ll have more information that you didn’t think about or they have a network that they’re willing to share with you. And I know it’s so cliche because people are like “Oh yeah, networking, networking” but it’s so true and you cannot make it more obvious, you know, like people say, like, “Go on LinkedIn”, but it’s so real, like I have seen the job postings from even CircNova, and, you know, it’s like you said, the specific PhD and extra amount of years in industry , and like I was able to sit down with the scientists and with the CEO and I was like “This is what I have to offer, I can be that person to you” and you just have to connect with the people that you work with or that you’re potentially going to work with. And that brings you very far and a long way that I think sometimes unfortunately is what, you know, LinkedIn has brought us is just this, you’re a paper, you’re no longer a face. And it’s really hard to convey yourself and what you can do without that personal, you know interaction.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

It’s, it’s funny that you say that because going back to earlier, right, the coincidence, happenstance, all these things I read a book about this, and I also, from personal experiences, always tell people when it comes to networking because it is such a word that literally people recoil when you talk about networking, like physical reaction to be like “I don’t want to do that”.

Ria Avelar

Yeah. (laughs)

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

They don’t even realize that networking happens everywhere. I say yeah at a conference, right, we always think like I need to network, I need to go to a conference and I need to talk to all these people. Sure. Going to a BBQ organized by your neighborhood.

Rita Avelar

Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Is a networking opportunity because you don’t know who you’re going to meet. You don’t know that your neighbor, three doors down, works for so and so, and it turns out they’re looking to hire someone with a PhD.

Rita Avelar

You’re so right.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

And you are that person. And this is why I think it’s important for people to understand that networking is not just going to talk to experts in the field, because this is, I think, what’s really scares people, right? It’s the idea of, like, you’re in a you’re a PhD student and you need to network to find a postdoc, so you need to go talk to PIs, and it is so scary. It’s like, yeah, but you can go pick-up your child at daycare or school and engage in conversation with the other parents. You don’t know what they do. And maybe just through this relationship, you know, you’re going to meet more people and they’re going to introduce you to someone who works there and does this.

Rita Avelar

Absolutely.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

So I think it’s really great that you’re saying like “Yeah, I showcased that I am more than just my PhD and I’m a person. This is the personality that you’re hiring.”

Maurinne Bonnet

Sometimes it can happen when you even don’t notice it.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

That’s been a great conversation, and I think we need to wrap it up. So we’re going to move on to our rapid fire questions.

Rita Avelar

Oh jeez. OK, I’m ready.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Take a deep breath. Literally first answer that comes to mind.

Rita Avelar

Let’s do it.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Let’s go. So do you prefer watching football on Sunday or reading a book?

Rita Avelar

Girl, I don’t like football. (laughs) Book for sure. (laughs)

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

What helps you stay motivated during challenging projects?

Rita Avelar

I focus on the bigger goal. I have an anchor, and I just focus on it.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Okay. What is a fun fact about you?

Rita Avelar

I would say a fun fact is I did my high school in Hong Kong. That’s where I learned English.

Maurinne Bonnet

Oh my God!

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

What would you tell your kids to encourage them to pursue a career in science?

Rita Avelar

(laughs) I’m always about, you know, follow your dreams because my parents didn’t even finish high school, right? So I would say if that’s what she wants, well, I say she because I have a baby girl. If that’s what she wants to do, I’m 100% you know on it and I will bring her to every science-related fun activity that she wants to pursue that career. But for me, the most important message is always follow your dreams.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

And finally, which country do you dream of traveling to?

Maurinne Bonnet

You better say France!

Rita Avelar

I’ve already been there. (laughs) Dream? Okay, I would say there is no one country. I would love to do a tour through Europe because I am from Portugal and it’s ridiculous that I have not traveled enough around Europe when I was there and even honestly, shame on me, I should definitely travel around Portugal before I adventure myself through other countries. Because there’s, like, I haven’t even been to the islands. I, yeah, Portugal. I will say my final answer is Portugal.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

(laughs) Great. Thank you.

Maurinne Bonnet

Thank you so much, Rita, for sharing your journey with us, sharing your tips and insights for our audience. If you want to know more, please make sure to connect with Rita on LinkedIn and just add a small message that you’ve listened to the podcast and you want to learn more about her journey or her job. Thank you again, Rita, and we wish you the best.

Rita Avelar

Thank you, guys, so much. I really appreciate this initiative and I hope that you guys can help all postdocs out there because you’re not alone. So yeah, feel free to reach out. I’m more than happy to share more of my story or even my network if that helps you and best of luck.