Resources

• Michigan Medicine Office of Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies (OGPS)
• University of Michigan Medical School’s Research Operations, Management & Strategy (ROMS) fellowship
• Michigan Institute for Clinical and Health Research (MICHR)
• Biointerfaces Institute
• Center for Research on Learning & Teaching (CRLT)
  • Preparing Future Faculty (PFF) seminar
  • Teaching Foundations Series
  • Postdoctoral Short Course on College Teaching in STEM
• Developing Future Biologists (DFB)
• Macomb Correctional Facility Lecture Program (U-M Postdoctoral Association Outreach opportunities webpage)

Transcript

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Hello everyone and welcome to ‘What’s Up, Doc?’, an initiative developed by the University of Michigan Office of Postdoctoral Affairs. ‘What’s Up, Doc?’ is a professional development interview series created to support the career exploration efforts and professional development needs of current U-M postdocs. You will hear from former U-M postdocs, discuss their own postdoc experience, and share advice on their experience transitioning into their career of choice. We hope you will get the answers you want and need to make an informed decision about your own career. I am Anne-Sophie Bohrer.

Maurinne Bonnet

And I am Maurinne Bonnet.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Today our guest is Dr. Kaylee Steen who completed her postdoc at the University of Michigan in 2021. Kaylee is now the Associate Director of Professional Development and Trainee Support in the University of Michigan Medical School Office of Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies, or OGPS for short. Welcome Kaylee and thank you for joining us. 

Kaylee Steen

Hello, thank you for having me. Good morning.

Maurinne Bonnet

Hi Kaylee. So as Anne-Sophie just mentioned you work at the OGPS. So could you tell us a little bit more what is the OGPS office? What are you doing? What is their main mission there? 

Kaylee Steen

Yeah, so at OGPS, we are in the medical school within the University of Michigan, and specifically we sit within the Office of Research, but our mission is really the educational arm of the medical school. And more specifically, we focus on education for biomedical researchers. So we don’t have a hand in the medical education for MDs. We really focus on PhDs in training as well as postdocs. I oversee a team that kind of broadly focuses on professional growth, inclusion, and well-being. So we do workshops, have resources, advising, counseling to help people really with all aspects of their training and their career journey outside of the lab. So focusing on things like career exploration, professional skill building and competency building, more kind of personal development and holding events and activities that focus on belonging and really kind of celebrating our community and the different places and backgrounds people are coming from. And then, of course, overall well-being. And so we have two licensed therapist clinicians on our team that do therapy as well for our trainees. 

Maurinne Bonnet

Oh, okay. I didn’t know about the therapy. 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

That’s amazing. Yeah. 

Maurinne Bonnet

So you said you were mostly providing resources and programs, workshops for all the well-being and professional development. Would you maybe describe two or three programs that you think postdocs that are listening to us today would like to hear about? 

Kaylee Steen

So for postdocs, I think one of our, what I’d call maybe at this point, really one of our flagship programs for postdocs is the YouCubed (You³) Leadership and Management Program. When I was a postdoc, I helped develop it with a couple of postdoc colleagues, but I was a part of that team that really thought about like, what are the needs that postdocs have in order to build an independent career, regardless of what career path they go down. So regardless if they go to academia, industry, government, nonprofit, what are sort of key common professional competencies that individuals really need to develop and hone to be successful? And so we built this eight module course that focuses on things that individuals need to build kind of within themselves. So their own competencies, things like being aware of their biases or understanding what are my strengths and how can I leverage those strengths. And then we shift into more about, okay, how do you then develop a team. How do you do more consistent interview strategies in order to pick the right candidate for your team? How do you then build trust in that team and effective teammanship? How do you manage a project, manage budgets, resources, et cetera? And so we built this You³ program, I think it was back in 2018 that we started the build of it. And we’re now, you know, moving into 2025-2026, we’re still running that program on a regular basis. And so postdocs join as a cohort. They go through this eight-week program on these various topics. We’ve also started a K99/R00 boot camp for postdocs. We did that boot camp last year as a pilot, and then we actually got a Burroughs Welcome Fund grant to build out this e-learning platform so people could either participate in live sessions as a boot camp or to try to make it more accessible for postdocs’ really busy schedules, do this more self-paced program where they get guided through all the different steps and sections of the grant. So that is being run. It’s about to start this fall. So we’re hoping that becomes a regular part of our programming. And then for more broad programming, we have other cohort programs that really focus on career exploration. So trying to figure out like, what are the things that I really love to do? What am I good at? What are the careers that are out there that could align with those skills and those values? And so we have a couple of different cohort programs that tackle that in slightly different ways. 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Great. Well, that’s a lot of work. So now we’re going to go back to you and your own journey, Kaylee. So can you tell us a little bit about your background and what led you to choose to pursue this career? 

Kaylee Steen

Yeah, so I used to think that I was maybe kind of like an oddball person in my graduate school program, in my postdoc program. But as I’ve gotten kind of into my professional groove, I’ve realized more people than not kind of have experienced what I’ve experienced. So, and I just say that as a caveat for those listening out there, sometimes I think you can perceive that you’re this like outlier, right? That you don’t quite know what you want to do or you’re sort of floundering. But really, I think it’s actually like the majority of people that have this feeling. So to kind of say that and then back up, when I was in graduate school, like most PhD students, I had to teach a couple of different semesters of courses and found that like I very much loved that process of coming up with lesson materials, learning materials, coming up with engaging ways to explain a process or, you know, a biological mechanism or something like that in an interesting way. And so I got sort of sucked into this world of pedagogy and understanding how people learn, how people retain and apply information. And so as I was getting involved in that, I took a preparing future faculty course at the University of Minnesota. I did an adjunct faculty position at a local school, Macalester College. And I thought,like, okay, this is it. Like this is for sure what I want to do. I absolutely loved teaching at Macalester. I liked the environment of that smaller school that was really focused on education. So being in the classroom and helping people learn really complex topics. 

But then when I became a postdoc at the University of Michigan, that was not accessible for me to be able to go and teach in a classroom and be, you know, the instructor on record, right? For various reasons. There are barriers to that. And I didn’t understand that when I took the postdoc. I figured, you know, I’m going to do this postdoc. I’m going to get a little bit more research experience so that I can go to, in my mind, I was anticipating going to a smaller university where I might have a small research lab, but it would be mainly teaching. But what I had heard from people is that the postdoc is valuable in order to kind of come up with that research project or program that you could bring to a school. So that was kind of my vision, my thought process. But again, I didn’t realize that I wouldn’t be able to teach. And so I decided to get involved in other programs that were still educational in nature. I did Developing Future Biologist. Luckily, I was in the Department of Cell and Development Biology (CDB), that is the host of Developing Future Biologist, DFB. So that was like a very easy transition to get involved in that and kind of run that program. And I found that I really liked the act of also developing a program. So we had to do big programmatic shifts because of COVID. And so I kind of took the lead on figuring out like we created these at home lab kits that we shipped to every participant to do these little experiments at home. And just kind of figuring out, like, how to solve those problems and logistical problems and administrative challenges and like managing the budget. We got a couple of grants for that program itself. So I learned that grant management side of things. And so it really opened my eyes to all of these different aspects of what I would think of like administration. And I didn’t know this at the time, right? Like that it was really administrative type work and programmatic type work. And then at the same time, I got involved with the You³ program that I mentioned earlier. So I was starting to kind of have my hand in more of this higher ed administration. And during kind of that self-discovery of realizing like, okay, there’s these other things that I like to do to help people develop, to help people grow. I’m not necessarily in a classroom, but I’m still a part of the learning process. And so it was around that same time when this administrative fellowship, research administrative fellowship, was first launched. And so I was finishing my first year of my postdoc. That was introduced. I became aware of it. And I realized, like, that could open up a lot of doors for me by just learning about this greater research administration, education administration infrastructure and get a lot of exposure to that in a very structured way. And so that was really like the turning point. I applied and was accepted into that fellowship position, which then completely opened my eyes to all the different types of ways we can support trainees, support research. You know, there’s research development, there’s, of course, educational development, there’s faculty development. There’s like so many different aspects beyond just within the classroom setting where you’re helping people develop something. And that’s the piece that I found I really liked, whether it was in the classroom, giving a lecture, giving a workshop. It was that development piece of it that I really enjoyed. 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Just a quick follow-up. So you mentioned that fellowship you did during your postdoc. The name of the fellowship, it’s the Research Operations, Management, and Strategy Fellowship. 

Kaylee Steen

Correct. 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Right? ROMS. I’m just saying this so people can then look it up. So can you expand a little more really on the structure maybe of the fellowship, but also, like you said, it really expanded your horizons on really what higher ed administration can look like. So can you just explain a little bit what it was like and what you actually did during the fellowship? 

Kaylee Steen

Yeah, so I will say my experience was a little bit unique than how a future ROMS fellow will experience this program because when myself and my other fellow, Kelly Kennaley, who’s actually now the program, she manages that fellowship as part of her job. When we joined, you know, we’re the first two fellows. There was structure, but it was also kind of made, not made clear to us, but we were welcomed in as a part of the team to continue building out the program. And, you know, for me, like, I actually love that because again, I had a chance to like have a real touch and a real hand in like developing the fellowship, how I, based off of our experience, how we thought it could be developed in a way that was like really meaningful and really impactful. With that being said, basically, kind of in a distilled version, the way that it has now developed and sort of solidified, and apologies to Kelly if you’re listening, if I get little details wrong, but essentially you go through what are called core rotations. So these are when you first start the fellowship. And these are units within the Office of Research that are kind of like the core key foundational units that are needed to run a research infrastructure, an academic medical center. So that includes things like, I don’t know what it’s called now, but at the time it was called like the leadership rotation or something like that. And that was working more closely with like the dean’s office and those individuals, kind of executive level leadership. Worked with department chairs, associate deans, things like that. Worked on a couple of different projects with them and supported some of the committees. We were very engrossed in like their meetings and conversations. You really got to see and hear what are the things that they have to address, what are their challenges, what are their barriers, how do they talk about it, how do they solve those problems. It was very intimidating and intense. And like half the time, I wasn’t sure what they were talking about, but it was a really good exposure to see like, these are the kinds of challenges that they have to deal with on a regular daily basis. So that was very interesting. And then we went on to other core rotations like IRB, so the institutional review board, the research core facilities, animal ULAM, so the animal care and husbandry, those kinds of things where you’re like, you absolutely have to have those units to run this like a major research enterprise. And so we would spend a few weeks with each of those units, work with their leadership or other staff members to kind of get an understanding of their business operations, the services that they provide. We would work on small, little projects with them just to get a little of experiential learning. But a lot of it is like shadowing, sitting in on meetings. And then based off of that experience, you also have the opportunity to do what are called elective rotations. So for instance, OGPS would be one of the units where you can do an elective rotation. And it’s, you know, again, a several weeks where you’re sitting in on meetings, doing little projects. And then what’s really cool is after those initial rotations, it’s a little bit of like a choose your own adventure where you can select what are called impact projects to get really involved with certain units or certain activities that you have a specific interest in.

When I was a fellow, we had to kind of, um, seek out people. We had to like reach out to him and say like “Hey, I’m this weird fellow like that you’ve never heard of in this program. You’ve never, you know, well, like, can I work with you?” So we had to kind of like, uh, like hit the pavement in that way but it ended up being totally fine. I met with a lot of really interesting units and people and ended up doing projects with MICHR, so the Michigan Institute of Clinical and Health Research, with their team science group, and we worked on, doing these like brainstorming sessions. I think at the time they called them research jams, to help people ideate projects that they could do with a multidisciplinary group of scientists. I also worked with faculty development on coming up with tools and resources for new faculty and helping them kind of get situated and be successful in those first few years of, of their, of their career, early career faculty. So that was really interesting. I got to talk with a lot of different faculty and, like, really understand all of the challenges that they face, not just when they start, but really like throughout their whole career. And so that gave me, I think like a more intimate understanding of all the challenges that faculty have to face that I like just didn’t quite appreciate as a postdoc or a graduate student. And then I also did do some work with OGP and it was actually revamping the You³ program. So that’s been kind of like a constant in my trajectory. So yeah, so that is those impact projects that wrap up the second year of the fellowship. And then the idea is as you’re getting closer to the end, you start your job search and, oftentimes, there’s one of the groups that you’ve worked with. And if the timing works out, just so if there’s a position available, oftentimes people end up getting placed in that kind of fashion because they’ve already worked with these units or these groups on these projects, and there’s a need so you can pair up in that way. For me, it was not through a project, but I had worked with a managing director, Nadine Wong, at the Biointerfaces Institute. And it was really like just small little interactions, but I think she recognized kind of the skills I was developing in this fellowship and it piqued her interests enough where a few positions opened up that were being administered by the Institute. And so she’s just sent them my way. It was like a classic networking situation where you interact with someone, you make a good impression and they say “Hey, these jobs are like coming online, like make sure you apply for it (hint, hint)”. And so that kind of helped elevate my applications.

Maurinne Bonnet

Yeah, well, your fellowship sounds very broad and sounds like you’ve met a lot of people and that kind of like you just said, made you land your first job. And so as we’re hearing about your story, I think we’re wondering if you’re a candidate that, you know, didn’t have the chance to pursue one of those fellowships like the ROMS you just did, what do you think would make them competitive for those types of positions?

Kaylee Steen

Yeah, it’s a really good question. While it was extremely helpful and it is like a very valuable program, it by no means precludes you or excludes you from securing positions within research administration or higher ed administration. I think what I tell people is that if you’re interested in certain areas, just like you would with any kind of professional development or career development, it really starts first with understanding the landscape, so kind of doing the homework to explore career opportunities, research them, talk with people. And that’s a big part of what the fellowship was, right? But it’s like structured, dedicated time, which is the benefit of it. But you as just an individual can do all of that as well. But you do have to commit to the process and you have to dedicate time to do it. So I think that’s a little bit of the sticking point for people, right? We’re all really busy. If you’re a postdoc, you have a full-time job. So like it is hard to dedicate that time to doing the research, to having conversations with people. And it can feel a little bit overwhelming. So I would say like, one, understand that it is a process that’s going to take time. Before I did the fellowship, I probably spent the whole two years of my research postdoc in CDB, not every single day, every single moment, but throughout those two years, I would have phone calls with people if I saw them on a panel or if I was at a workshop or something, and there was someone from the NSF or the National Academy of Sciences, and I’d think like “Oh, that’s a cool type of job” and I would just cold email them and ask for a phone call. And I would have, you know, 30-minute, 45-minute, this was before like Zoom was really a thing. So I’d have a conversation with them in the morning, like while I’m having coffee or breakfast, and I was doing my own career exploration, having informational interviews. So I committed to that process, even before the fellowship. And so I think even without the fellowship, I probably would have ultimately ended in a similar space that I currently am. So that’s one thing, really committing to the process and understanding that it takes time.

The other thing I would say is really, you know, utilize the resources that are available. So in the medical school, OGPS, we have career advisors, we have two individuals that you can meet with, they can coach you through the career exploration process and help you come up with a structured process for doing these kinds of things, and giving you advice, resources, etc. Other postdocs, right, like we have the Office of Postdoctoral Affairs, of course, Anne-Sophie! 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Yes, you do!

Kaylee Steen

We have additional resources for you as a postdoc from any college that you can access and utilize to help you with this, with this career exploration, skills development, so you can come up with a plan and a structure and a framework. You’re not on your own. And I think people are always surprised when they utilize our services after being here for a while, and then they see like “Oh, here’s how we can actually help you or here’s some ideas we can give you”. I’m always kind of interested in like the surprised look of people afterwards, like “Oh, that was really helpful, I should have, you know, moved two years ago”. So that’s the other thing I would say, again, just utilize the resources. If you’re at the University of Michigan, you’re already very fortunate in the sense that we are very resource rich as a university.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Oh, yeah. And if I may add something to all that, Kelly, it’s that you said it before, you’re not alone in freaking out about what comes next. And I will also say the sooner you start asking yourselves those questions of like, what do I want to do next, the better, right? And I know that I’ve been there myself, you start a postdoc, you’re getting the lay of the land, you’re not really sure what you are doing, but you know you have to do all your research. So it takes a lot of your time, obviously, it’s your job, but also it takes a lot of brain space, right, to basically get going on a brand new environment, a brand new project. So it’s kind of odd to say, as soon as you start your postdoc, start thinking about your next step. But I know that from my experience, I wish I had done this too, right. And I had my next step all figured out when I started my postdoc. And within 18 months, it completely changed. And I was like “Oh, oh no, what do I do now?” So I was forced to have that train of thought and go on that journey. But it’s also completely fine if you really don’t know. And that’s why OPA, OGPS counselors are here, right? Like you can come to see us and just be like “I’m lost, I really don’t know what I want to do”. And it’s fine. It’s completely fine.

Kaylee Steen

I will say, when I was a postdoc and realized like, yeah, the whole like teaching thing was going to be kind of tricky. And I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. I met with, I think it was Maggie (Gardner) and Shoba (Subramanian), but it was like a joint career advising session. It was that basically like, I don’t know what to do. I don’t know if Maggie remembers this, but like, I definitely started crying because I was so stressed and anxious and I mean, they were so helpful and empathetic, right? And I think a lot of the people here within Michigan, like have that attitude and that affect of like, we’re here to help you and we are empathetic to your challenges. Most of us have also been, have been through that and experienced that and that stress and that turmoil and that uncertainty. And so I think that that’s actually just like a really great step if you are completely lost or unsure is to set up a meeting with Anne-Sophie in the OPA or with myself or someone on my team members within OGPS to just start that conversation. And it’s a safe space to do so. It’s a safe space to say like “I thought I wanted to do this, but I’m not sure. I don’t know if I like, I’m going to like it. I don’t know if I’m that good at it.” Like for me, I didn’t have the attention span to do really methodical research. There comes to a point where I had to like really sit myself down of like, with the process of research, what skills those take, like, do I have that personality? Is that really me? And at the end of the day, the process of research and the scientific process is just not me as a human being. That’s not quite how my, you know, I was like, I got through it. I found my little tricks of the trade. But for me, where I sit within the research space and within the scientific community is really supporting and helping the scientists and the researchers and the trainees in their development. Like that’s, that’s where I thrive. And I think there was like almost an element of like embarrassment or shame of like “Oh, I’m not as good at this thing as my colleagues or as my other postdocs or students” but it’s, but it’s like, that’s the wrong way of thinking of it. And like, and that’s why actually, in a lot of our programming, we really focus on your strengths rather than your deficits, because that kind of helps reframe the way you think about like yourself and what you bring to the table. I have certain strengths in other areas that I can really leverage and help the overall scientific community in ways that I can tackle in a more meaningful way than if I’m at the bench as a scientist. That’s just not where my true skill set lies. 

Maurinne Bonnet

Yeah, you don’t imagine how much I can relate to that. Like, I think for me, realizing that I was not the best at the bench, it was kind of a grief too, because you’re like, you were raised as a scientist to be at the bench to perform science. And suddenly you’re realizing that actually your strengths are not at the bench, they are elsewhere. And it’s something that you have to give up on that idea that you were working, you know, since your undergrad, grad studies and, and it’s like, wow, it’s disturbing.

So you had a first interest in teaching, and then you had to kind of give up on that when you study your postdoc. So I’m wondering, for other postdocs that are listening, are there really no opportunities to teach, even like today, at the U of M? I feel like there are some programs, maybe?

Kaylee Steen 

Yeah, so I would say one thing again, like University of Michigan has so many resources. This CRLT, they have, I know, at least in the past, and I think that they’re still doing it, they had a short course for postdocs on teaching and like pedagogy and design. And so just from like a learning and skills development standpoint, I would definitely recommend either looking into that short course or just other things that CRLT has to offer. You know, for ways that they can support postdocs in developing kind of your knowledge and your skill sets around teaching. I believe that there are opportunities to like get in the classroom and maybe teach some lessons or topic within a course, but you’re not necessarily like the instructor on record.

And actually, I would say if I could take like a step back, regardless of your interest is in teaching or some other type of career or, you know, some type of need that you have. I think it is really important to develop a strong communication strategy with your postdoc advisor. I will say I made that mistake. I think it was most evident when I was a graduate student, I did not talk to my PhD advisor about like the teaching aspect that I was interested in. And then eventually when this adjunct position came into play at McAllister College, I finally like had, you know, bucked up and had this conversation with him. And it was actually totally fine. Like we figured out a plan, a strategy of how I’d get like my work done, my research done, in addition to going to the St. Paul campus, we figured out like how we were going to communicate with each other. He told me what his expectations were of me and the expectations that I needed to meet if I was going to do that. And I followed through with it. And so I think that that’s a piece of it that can sometimes get lost too, because it can be very scary to have that initial conversation. Because you don’t know how it’s going to be received. But I would say it is better to have the conversation and have open dialogue and make sure your expectations are aligned than like doing something sort of secretively on the side and then having conflict arise from it.

Maurinne Bonnet

Yeah. And it can be like even like more, even useful, because some PIs obviously, they are teaching. And I know, when I addressed my PI that I was interested in teaching, and I have a background as a teacher, she was like “Well, there is this lecture in two months, if you want to take it, just I have the slides ready, just do it.” And so depending on your PI, that might also be like an opportunity to actually take a lecture from them. So they can dedicate more time with their students and you have this experience of teaching.

Kaylee Steen

Right, definitely. And that’s a to like teaching yeah like one of the classes within a course right um so you’re not necessarily the instructor on record but you can still get in front of the classroom and teach. But as I talked about earlier you know I was a part of this developing future biologist course as one of the instructors we also give some of those we present some of the modules on like I did one on regeneration or something like that with a model organism and so that is also teaching, right like I’m teaching a group of undergraduate students. The UMPDA has a program with Macomb Correctional Facility where they teach some classes so there are also these like volunteer opportunities and student orgs and postdoc orgs or postdoc associations where you can get that same type of experience but you’re just not like the official instructor in a more formal sense.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Yeah. And really, like, what I want to add to that is that you, that’s what you said, Kaylee, it’s really the understanding that what matters is the skills you’re developing, not necessarily the experience you’re getting to developing those skills. So the postdoc short course that you mentioned that the CRLT is doing is a great first starter because you have all that knowledge, you have all that understanding of what goes into teaching in higher education. If you can’t teach, talk to your PI because Maurinne said it, you can maybe take one of their courses, but maybe also you can shadow. Even just being in the classroom, seeing how they teach their classes, looking around at the faces of the students: are they engaged, right? And start thinking of like, okay, if I was teaching this class, maybe I would have done this differently. And maybe it’s a conversation you can then have with the person you’re shadowing of being like “oh, can we debrief a little bit? Like, I had ideas. What do you think about this?” This is the process of using that knowledge and developing those skills, right? And I fully agree, and I really want to emphasize that, that when we talk about teaching skills, it’s not just in the classroom. When you mentor someone in the lab, it is teaching, you’re teaching them new skills, you’re helping them figure out things. This is teaching. When you do outreach events and you go to, I don’t know, a third grade classroom to talk about DNA extraction, that is a teaching experience. And so I think it’s also very important to reframe the difference between I need to get an experience to show it on my resume versus I need to understand what skills I need to go into that job and how I can develop those skills and what experiences I can have to really showcase that I have the understanding, I used those skills in those ways to then be able to transition into whatever career someone is interested in.

Kaylee Steen

And I think the other thing just to add to, to what you’re saying is when you kind of reframe it in that way, then the next step is like, how do I then help in a resume or cover letter or an interview, connect those dots and articulate and highlight those skills as it relates to the position that I’m applying. And again, as like a plug for our career and professional development team at OGPS, that’s one of the things that they can help you do, right? Of like, these are the careers that I’m interested in. How do I reframe or recraft my resume or my cover letter so I’m better articulating and better kind of bringing to the surface these experiences and skills that I’ve developed. And of course, similarly with the OPA resources, right? So you don’t just have to be in the medical school to access this type of support from our staff members. 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Yeah. And I think it’s really also about knowing the stories you want to tell. Right? It’s not just a list of skills, and a list of achievements. It’s also like, what can you tell about this? Right? It’s like, it’s not a pivot because you figured “Oh, I guess I’m gonna do this by default.” No, it’s like, there’s an intention behind it. And so the more aware you are of what you want, what you need, and even like specifically what you don’t want, and what you don’t want to do, then you can start to really like “Okay, what is the story that I want to tell?” So that when I apply for those jobs, I am able to reframe all my experiences and make it coherent, right for the employer. So they understand that I’m doing this by choice and not because I have to get a job.

Well, we’re kind of getting to the end of the interview, Kaylee. So I guess that we’re gonna really go into our rapid fire question little portion. So really, the only rule is to give the first answer that comes to your mind. So are you ready? 

Kaylee Steen 

I think so. 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Okay. Soccer or football?

Kaylee Steen

Soccer. Well, I guess what country are we in? So we’re in America. So soccer.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

That’s what I was going to say. Maurinne and I are French, so soccer and football, same same, because soccer is football, but yeah.

What would you like to tell our audience about the job search?

Kaylee Steen

Be resilient. I think currently right now it is a tough market regardless of what sector. So finding your strategies to be resilient.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

What is your go-to stress relief activity?

Kaylee Steen

Mmm. Watching TV. So generic, but I love a good I love a good series.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Good. What is your favorite cuisine or food?

Kaylee Steen

Um, I would say, oh, it’s a tie between Indian food or Japanese food.

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Yeah, very good. What’s surprised you most about life after your postdoc?

Maurinne Bonnet 

That there is a life?!

Kaylee Steen

Yeah, yeah, I think it’s like how, to be quite frank, like how enjoyable it can be, you know, when you’re doing something that you feel like you really thrive in and you enjoy the day to day and you feel like you’re good at it making an impact like it’s a very like freeing feeling, if that makes sense.

Maurinne Bonnet and Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. 

Maurinne Bonnet

Well, thank you so much, Kaylee, for being here today with us and sharing all those useful and valuable information. So for our audience, please check the OGPS website, the OPA website. Do not hesitate to contact either Anne-Sophie or Kaylee or one of the team members and check their LinkedIn to connect with them with follow-up questions. And do not hesitate to also check our LinkedIn page for more episodes. And with that, I will say, see you later. 

Anne-Sophie Bohrer

Bye, Kaylee. Thank you so much. 

Kaylee Steen

Thank you.